• April 8, 2019 at 6:30 am #25288
    dubmethoddubmethod
    Participant

    Hi Joe,

    Just crossed my mind the above idea as it would be a great help to gain some knowledge on analyzing an already mixed and post-processed sound in an existing track. I think the most difficult part is getting through the effects and get a good enough image of the synth patch when trying to recreate it.

    Do you see this as a good point and would you share some guidelines from your experience please? Or make the sound design lobe of your brain available to download? πŸ˜€

    April 8, 2019 at 8:59 am #25290
    joehanleyJoe Hanley
    Keymaster

    Hey Dubmethod

    I’ve dabbled a bit but never really dug into it seriously. For me, I go through the exercise of recreating patches in songs to train my ear, so that I can ultimately make the the things I’m hearing in my head, as well as tweak patches when I know/hear what I want or don’t want them to do.

    But reverse engineering doesn’t really help with that goal, as I can’t analyze what I hear in my brain.

    So no, I wouldn’t recommend it as a good starting point. It’s definitely an interesting concept, and if it piques your interest, I would pursue it to scratch that mental itch. And no doubt you’ll definitely learn things in the process.

    But, in all things music, my goal is get to a point where I can make what I feel and hear with as little analysis and technical thought as possible. Free, open and pure expression.

    April 8, 2019 at 10:08 am #25294
    dubmethoddubmethod
    Participant

    Lol: “scratch that mental itch”…
    What you’re saying is very reasonable, I’m exactly about to gain that superpower. So might be not specific enough, I’d like to understand how to achieve what you do. If I’m understanding well you just keep practicing until it becomes a second nature?

    Maybe the best to tell about my problem (it is still about synthesis :D), I’m near to finish the Syntorial lessons and I usually work out the Group challenges often to 3 stars than 2 stars, but when it’s about a sound in a real track I block and just foggy hunches or nearly nothing that I got to go with…

    April 8, 2019 at 10:23 am #25296
    joehanleyJoe Hanley
    Keymaster

    When recreating a patch in a song it can be tougher because, as you said, it’s hard to really “hear” it in a mixed song. So a few things:

    1. Search the whole song for the most clear point. For example, in the last tut I did for Sicko Mode, I was struggling with the sub bass a bit because it had a particular tone, not a typical sine wave. However, I back-tracked to the intro and realized it was being played there without drums or the second bass, both of which were making it harder to hear.

    2. Start with the most obvious aspects of the sound first. Get the easier stuff out of the way. Each patch is different so whatever sticks out, try to do that first.

    3. Experiment. In my videos I make it look like a clear, easy and logical process, but since I can’t hear the naked patch, I still have to experiment a lot. I’ll do a little bit one day, come back to it the next, realize it’s way off, try again, etc.

    4. Focus more on the filter than the waveform. I find that I’m tweaking the filter a lot when recreating patches, more so than the waveform. When I do these recreations I end up with Saw 80% of the time, because even if the actual patch used a different waveform, it became less important due to the filtering and effects. I usually try to stick to basic subtractive waveforms for this reason, and it almost always works out, which saves a lot of time on trial-and-error that would be involved in trying out different wavetables.

    And yes, a strong ear comes with repetition. Lots of repetition. Sounds are so infinitely different and internally complex, that it requires our brain’s nondeclarative memory (the part that enables us to talk, walk, ride a bike, play the piano, etc) to get involved in order to recognize what’s going on. And that part of our brain only learns through actual experience and repetition.

    April 8, 2019 at 11:10 am #25301
    dubmethoddubmethod
    Participant

    Oh, that’s brilliant this is definitely helpful and gives a big push.
    My biggest struggle is the waveform (besides the rest) and its relation to the Filter now makes much more sense. Also coming back to it the other day is also a nice advise, yeah I know patience makes things more productive πŸ™‚

    I think I print this post of yours and put it on the wall πŸ˜€

    Many thanks, Joe the a professor πŸ™‚

    April 8, 2019 at 11:15 am #25304
    joehanleyJoe Hanley
    Keymaster

    Happy to help!

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